Already Aware: Dealing With Feelings About Breast Cancer Awareness Month

Welcome to The Breastcancer.org Podcast, the podcast that brings you the latest information on breast cancer research, treatments, side effects, and survivorship issues through expert interviews, as well as personal stories from people affected by breast cancer. Here's your host, Breastcancer.org Senior Editor Jamie DePolo. 

Jamie DePolo: As always, thank you for listening. This podcast is the audio from a special Virtual Community Meetup featuring licensed clinical social worker and grief counselor Kelly Grosklags. Kelly helped community director Melissa Jenkins lead this meetup on dealing with your feelings about Breast Cancer Awareness Month if you’ve already been diagnosed with breast cancer. We hope this podcast brings comfort to people who have a history of breast cancer or who are living with the disease.

Kelly Grosklags: Thank you, everybody. I am Kelly Grosklags, and I am officed in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I have been a psychotherapist for three decades now and specialize in grief and loss in oncology, primarily. Currently, I am not practicing. I am teaching, writing, speaking.

I want to say to everybody, welcome. And I think it took a lot of courage sometimes to show up at these events, because you just don't know what space you’re going to be in, but we’re holding space for all of it today. And I was asked to come and talk about Breast Cancer Awareness Month, which we obviously know is in October.

I will say that, as a therapist, I have seen the gamut of people for this month. I have seen some people feel real strongly about wanting to get out and wear the pink and do all the things that are available. I have seen some people very reticent against it, avoid it, don’t like it at all, would rather go to the dentist and have a tooth pulled than deal with all the pinkwashing.

What I want to say is neither one way or the other way is right or wrong.

I think the other thing that’s important to remember is you may feel different this October than you did last or five Octobers ago, and it’s okay.

Some people feel sad that they’re never acknowledged during the month, and some people are relieved that they’re not, because what we do know, and what I hope all of you work on, is that you are not identified as your diagnosis. You are somebody living with breast cancer, HER2-positive, triple-negative, metastatic, early-stage, whatever that may be. But you’reiving with. Just like you’re somebody with brown eyes, just like you’re somebody with grandchildren, just like you’re somebody who has a partner, whatever that may be. So, you’re living with. And I think what ends up happening in October is it is just shoved in everybody’s faces. It becomes kind of like, this is your identity. This is your identity. This is your identity.

So, to start off, I just want to say that I’m hoping all of you on the call are not using it as your primary identity, but it is something that you live with each day.

Before I get too far into this, one of the things Melissa had asked is to talk a little bit about, is kind of how do we get through tough months? Now, the other thing I want to say is, October, it’s just more front and center, but people living with cancer, the other 11 months of the year, you also have to integrate it and learn to live with it. And so, I think by now, we are aware that it’s important to get mammograms and do breast checks and all those things, and I don't want to minimize all that. I don't know that pink shoes on a football player is going to change those things for us or is going to impact you for the positive.

So, you’re going to be seeing a lot of it, if you haven't already.

But I want to start, and it’s kind of hard on virtual, but I want to light a candle for all of us on here today, and I want this to just be our common light in times, right now, that might feel really dark. This is something you can practice each morning, lighting. This is an unscented candle on purpose. Lighting a candle kind of each morning when you wake up, setting an intention or a hope for the day. I think that that’s just really an important piece.

In October, we get slammed with statistics, and sometimes those statistics are outdated. Sometimes those statistics have nothing to do with you, but it’s almost like vicarious trauma, right? And I will say that, for the majority of the people and my patients that I’ve worked with over the years, being diagnosed with cancer is a form of PTSD. And I see your head shaking, Denise, and I’m seeing that’s resonating with you. I think we’ve come a long way with that, but I will say that I don't know that people are as aware of the trauma component of being diagnosed with cancer. And some people will say, oh, at least it’s stage I or at least it’s stage 0 or...and anytime it starts with “at least,” I get shrilled a little bit, because that immediately diminishes what we’re experiencing.

So what I want to say is, the trauma piece is something that I’m hoping people are either seeing therapy for, coming to these groups for, talking to your doctor, using the word “traumatic.” This is traumatic. To come in and even get a lab drawn can feel very traumatizing and can be kind of what we call that chronic PTSD, C-PTSD, you might see it. That you start to live in this moment of being hypervigilant. And just possibly when you’re feeling more centered, something comes up in the month of October. And it might be a story. It might be a recurrence story. It might be something that just kind of sends you.

So, kudos to Breastcancer.org for having this conversation the month before October, because what we’re hoping is that, if we start talking about this now, we can maybe develop ways to either lean into the month or really take care of yourself extra during the month.

Now, there was just a poll that came out I saw, and I’m seeing in the chat that there are some things that are being put up…”at least” language, yes. What I would love though, because I’d kind of like to know who I’m talking with, so if you would just put in the chat where are you from? Various countries have shown up for these events, which has been wonderful, but can you just say where you’re from?

And if you’re comfortable, you can share, you know, what stage you are or when you were diagnosed, but then I also want to know, what is your favorite thing about fall and autumn?

So, here we are heading into October. Can we talk a little bit...now, we have a small group. So, if people want to use the chat, that’s important, but I think at the end, too, if it stays this size, we can also have questions asked. But I’m wondering how people are doing with the month coming up? How do you feel about it? Let’s just put some things in the chat here, and then we can go from there.

"Pumpkin." I just made pumpkin bread this morning. It smells so good. I had to get up at 6 to do it, but it doesn't matter. "Crisp air," yeah, "cooler temps."

So, we have: "My first October...,"I love the cooler temps." We have a variation of people from all over and at different stages, so it's important to remember...and I’m sure, if you’ve joined one of these webinars or these meetups before, is remembering that what works for one of us may not be for another, and that’s okay. Again, that doesn't mean it’s right or wrong. In a diagnosis with cancer, the other thing I often see...and if there’s been, like, a death or a major change in a family, is the before and the after. Before the diagnosis, after the diagnosis. So, possibly, October never really bothered you prior to the diagnosis. In fact, it may have even inspired you.

Oh, that’s right, I have to go get a mammogram, or oh, isn’t that neat that all these pink ribbons are floating around the football field or whatever? If it is different now, that’s okay. If it’s not, that’s okay, too. But I guess I’d like to hear from the group on here, what does it feel like to have that what we call pink washing all the time in our space? If you want to talk about that a little bit. And again, I’m not here to rip on breast cancer awareness at all. Because I do think it’s important. However, I would like to see us move things and money into support programs, nonprofits, whatever that may be. Absolutely research, because research actually makes a huge difference.

I have the privilege of sitting on a board here at the University of Minnesota, which is a philanthropic cancer board, and a lot of our efforts are going into breast cancer research, specifically metastatic, and we have seen some huge progress. Now, sometimes people give more money in October, okay, to research. That’s not a bad thing, but I think where I would love to see it move is that we honor people’s needs with breast cancer, whether it’s mental health, housing, financial, emotional, spiritual support, research, all the months, all the months of the year. And that we focus on the importance all the months, so that you don’t just feel like you’re getting support in October.

So, that’s kind of one of my biases, I will just say, is, again, I’m not here to rip on it. I think there are some important things, but I will say that, after working in this field for a long time and having probably 40% of my patients with breast cancer and really listening to them over the years, the pink cup at the coffee shop doesn't necessarily make them feel support, but a friend sending a card and saying I love you and I’m thinking of you is wonderful. Or seeing the latest, you know, therapies that come out that have promising effects or the clinical trials.

That tends to be something where people really feel motivated from. So, again, however you feel about the month I think is okay, and however you feel about the month throughout the month is okay. There might be a day where it’s like, oh, this feels really great. This is really comforting, and I like this. And there may be a day, the following week, where it’s like, I can’t stand this anymore. I’ve got to turn off the TV. I don’t want to go to the store. I don’t want to see pink M&Ms. That does nothing for me, and you know, again, so, wherever you’re at, it’s okay.

One thing I would like to hear from this particular group is what happens in your friend and family circle or your work circle during the month of October? If you are somebody that has shared your diagnosis, what kinds of things have you experienced during this month?

I’m going to read one of the comments here: "I’ve done the Pink Walk a few times in the past for others. I want to, but I can’t seem to do it for myself. I’m one year post-op. Had reconstruction. Had my surgery in New York."

And that’s absolutely okay. I’ve also done the three-day breast cancer walk, because, again, the focus was...this was a while ago. I wanted it to go for some of the research that was happening at the time. It’s okay if you don’t do it.

Now, sometimes people have shared with me, over the years, that they have guilt, that they’re not “doing enough for the cause.” And I really want to challenge that, because there’s no written rule that you have to do X, Y, and Z in order to do well with this disease. And I will also say that there is always a time and a place, and maybe it’s not going out and doing the big walks or doing the advocacy or going to Capitol Hill. Maybe it’s sitting down with somebody in your support group and talking to that person on the phone, and it’s not necessarily about advocacy. It’s about truly being present for somebody in that moment.

And so, I think that’s really an important component to think about, is what feels right for you in this month? And I think that that is something to be very mindful of. And rather than the shoulds...I like to say we shouldn't should on ourselves, because should-ing is something that’s just going to take us down a rabbit hole. And it’s going to use energy we don’t necessarily have. So, rather than, I should be doing this, I should be doing this, really tuning into yourself, especially during the month of October.

What is it that makes me feel centered, loved, safe? Safe is a big one, and right now, we are being inundated with violence in our world. And we have to possibly put the pause on social media, the news, the radio, the newspaper, whatever it may be, and that is absolutely okay. In fact, it’s recommended. So, when you’re coming into the month of October, ask yourself this: What helps me feel safe? And if it is advocacy with politicians, then do it, because we need that. If it is turning off your social media for the entire month, do it. If it is donating to a cause for a specific reason in the cause...so, maybe you do donate to a breast cancer cause, but it’s for patients’ financial assistance. Or maybe you donate to an animal shelter to spread kindness. Maybe you open the door for someone and say hello. What helps you feel safe?

So, I’m seeing here, if you could change something, I love this: "Sixty-seven percent is more focused on research, less on awareness," "Less pink, more sensitive language," "Survivor," "Better representation of all experiences, men’s, minority,"...yeah, definitely.

"Address disparities in detection, treatment." Yeah. I love that. I really love that.

I think you’re right. I think the research...because the research actually, even in the last year and a half, has made a difference. And if some of the trials are...just like, even, like, with Herceptin, if you remember, with the trials being very successful, they will expedite it so that people can benefit, because we’ve seen such. So, I’ve seen things, not only in breast cancer, but in other diagnoses of cancer, that even in the last year and a half, the money that was donated last year is already impacting and extending life this year.

So, I’m 100% behind that, 100% behind that. And I do sometimes...and again, I’m not ripping on the NFL. So, if you’re listening and you’re into the NFL, that’s great. I watch football. I will say, my team is the Vikings, and that is a whole thing. So, I always look at all the money spent on the pink. The pink cleats, the pink this, the pink that, and I thought, what if we took the whole NFL and just, in the money they’re spending on uniforms, donated it to cancer research? And then make a big deal about that? That, I think, would be a really incredible thing, and maybe we’re going to get there.

I saw some heads shaking. Let’s talk a little bit about the PTSD part. How does that resonate for you all when you hear that, when you hear me say that? Because, first of all, I want to acknowledge it, and I don’t care what stage you are, hearing the words, finding a lump, going in, getting called back, getting a biopsy, having surgery, having it recur, having it metastasize, whatever that may be, all of it is trauma. So, can you talk a little bit about what that feels like? Can you share what that feels like for you when I say the word PTSD?

Female Speaker: You know, you’re bringing this up, and I haven't thought about the beginning, because January seems so far away, like it’s a big fog. But I found myself using that, because the diagnosis was after an onset of medical events that I started in 2019, and I’ve had multiple surgeries, and then, when I found out that I was dealing with this, this made it my fifth surgery in a course since 2019. And I was trying to figure out, wow, this is really too much. I feel like I’m in some kind of a war, like what you described, you know? And I thought to myself, I probably should get something for this, because this is way over the top. I was not prepared for this at all.

And when I went for the mammogram in the first place, it was because I got a letter in the mail telling me that I was due for a mammogram, because I completely forgot it. And then when I went and I went through the process of all of that, they called me back, and I had to go for another one with an ultrasound because they couldn't figure out what was going on. Because it was a lot of shadows and everything. When I got the second mammogram and I was, you know, just sitting there waiting to figure out what was going to happen next, it was getting...I says, this is...you know, what’s going on here? And when I think about it now, I can feel that trauma going on sitting in the waiting room, you know? And I haven't thought about this.

Then, when I went for the ultrasound, I was terrified, okay? I was terrified of all of it, because I’ve already been through so much already, that, you know, what else could I have here? What else is it going to feel like when they start doing this or they start doing that? And I was very fortunate. The one guy who did the ultrasound...then I think they had to do...was it the ultrasound with the biopsy? Because then he had to do all that stuff. He was very good with it all, and he calmed me down, and then I’m a widow, so all I did was think about all the time I was with my husband.

So, I was trying to bring all of that together to get me through that one. But the strange thing is, after I got through that, then I had to talk to another person about scheduling a breast surgeon. And this was all happening all at once. And you know, I really couldn't grasp all of it. It was like I was just being moved. Somebody was just picking me up and moving me from place to place and going through, you know, whatever they were doing. But through that, I remember this one thing. I don’t know anybody in the area. I don't know doctors. I don't know hospitals. I just, I’m not familiar with any of this medical stuff. So, you’re really in the dark when you have to make decisions on who you’re going to have.

Melissa Jenkins: Thank you. Yeah, you’re so correct. Thanks for sharing all that. 

Kelly Grosklags: It sounds like people are really resonating with you, if you see in the chat. People are really resonating with it. Sometimes we don’t think about it, because, you know, you’re so busy, as you say, being picked up. And it’s interesting, in my first book, A Comforted Heart, there’s a woman that did an excerpt called “In an Alien World.” And she talks about her...she’s young, and she talks about her diagnosis with breast cancer.

That it was like somebody came and picked her up, took her to a different planet, and she was forced to, all of a sudden, make this fit into her life in ways that she wasn’t prepared for. And then looking at herself in a mirror and not recognizing herself and realizing that she really was living her life before and after. And I hear that all the time, the before the diagnosis and after the diagnosis, or before the death of your husband and after the death of your husband. And really, what it’s about is learning to integrate the two. It will never be the same as before.

I mean, I can’t say to people, "Oh, well, it’s going to get back to exactly where it was," because that would be misinformation. Doesn't mean it can’t have joy and we can’t have new friends and we can’t have beautiful things after. But there is this before and after, and that’s where the loss...it’s really important, also, to understand that a diagnosis of breast cancer is grief. It has grief that follows it, because it is a loss. It’s a loss of what we knew. It’s a loss of innocence. It’s a loss of health. It’s sometimes a loss of friendships, relationships, whatever that may be. And so, it’s not either/or. It’s both/and.

And people will say to me, I have some of the most beautiful people in my life now, after this diagnosis, than I’ve ever had. Or I have a sense of surrender that I’ve never had, or my faith is stronger, or whatever, whatever it may be. And so, there are opportunities. I don’t consider it...I personally don’t consider the diagnosis a gift. If people do, that’s okay. That’s not my language that I use. I consider there to be opportunities that follow, and that can be maybe you have to change jobs that are abusive. Maybe you have to get out of relationships. Whatever, whatever, whatever that may be, but a gift? No.

Now, the other thing about October is there’s a lot of commercials. And the pharmas, in particular, are putting lots of commercials on. And I mean, there are some great drugs out there. Sometimes, though, the people on there, just because they're bald, doesn't necessarily represent what’s really going on in day-to-day with people with cancer. They’re smiling. They’re talking about side effects, but it’s not really a good representation. So what I see the problem with October being, is there is not good representation of what is actually going on and what is needed in the lives of people with breast cancer.

And so that’s where each individual person on this call gets to show up in your life and lean in. And speak what you personally need, what helps you feel safe, what helps you feel loved, and that’s really where I want the focus to be for each one of you. And again, I want to give you permission that that’s different every day of every month. And that’s okay. And sometimes families will say, "Well, I was just trying. That’s what you needed last week," you know, and there can be a lot of frustration, but that’s okay. It’s okay to wake up and have today be something different than yesterday. It can maybe be frustrating for you, but it’s okay. That doesn't mean there’s anything wrong with you or you’re broken or you’re doing this month wrong or whatever that may be.

I also am seeing in here that somebody said, "I do not like the term survivor." Or it’s [not] "I do not." It’s "I..." actually...they said, "I hate the term survivor, because that makes it feel like it’s over and I’ve won. I can use fighter or warrior, and I feel like it addresses the ongoing journey." And again, that is so individualized. Some people...lots of different cancers will have walks. And I’ve spoken at many walks, and sometimes, people wear the survivor shirt with a lot of pride. Some people won’t. Some people do not like the term warrior. Some people do not like the term fighter. Some people, it really resonates, as you can see here in the comments.

Again, I think you really have to go with what feels right for you. And I would love to know, is there a different term that resonates? I’ve done quite a bit with ovarian cancer, as well, and some people really like "thriver." Some people don’t. Is there a term for all of you that...because I get asked this question a lot by very well-intended people. What would be a better term to use? And what I say is you need to ask the people living with it. So, I would like to ask all of you who are living with breast cancer for you, personally, what’s a term that you tend to use?

Female Speaker: Someone just put in the...or I don't know if it was you, Melissa, or Anita, but those of us with metastatic, it’s really hard to find a word. I won’t be a survivor. For me, the idea of being a warrior, I feel like that would be something I would've chosen maybe? I don't know. I just can’t seem to find a word. And I recall, you know, for me, you know, breast cancer was something I’ve done all the fundraising, you know, the pink and all of that for other people, because it happened to other people. You know, it didn't happen...right, it wasn’t going to happen to me. But I remember seeing commercials about the very drug that I’m taking and not really understanding anything about metastatic cancer. And now I look at those commercials, and I’m like, yeah, that’s not how it is. That’s just not how it is.

Kelly Grosklags: Well, thank you for sharing that. Can anyone else comment? You can take yourself off mute, also.

Shannon: The day before I was actually diagnosed, I had been biopsied and was just trying to do anything possible with my family to, like, occupy my mind. Was over Christmas break. My daughter was home from college. We went to see the movie Wicked. So, we’re in a large theater, major screen, and before the movie began, all of a sudden, there was this ad about breast cancer awareness. And I had people on this side of me and my husband and daughter on this side of me, and all I wanted to do was just bolt. I just wanted to leave.

So, I think that’s where I’m coming into October, not really...I was the one that said, early on, that this is going to be my first October. I don't know what it’s going to feel like, and that’s part of why I joined this conversation today, because part of me is trying to decide, do I need to be the one to be proactive? Do I get myself a little bit of pink? I’ve got some coworkers that’ve been very supportive. You know, do I get a couple of ribbons and say, if you want to wear one, it’s yours, so that I’m taking my own lead, or do I just hide for a month? I’m not sure how to walk into this.

Kelly Grosklags: Thank you for that. Because it’s your first October, and even if it weren’t, October is still an unknown because we’re not there. We’re not technically there yet, even though it’s starting. I’ve seen it. I’ve seen the pink food and all of that. So, what I would encourage is arrive at the month and see what feels okay. And I cannot stress this enough to people. There is nothing you have to do about this at all. And possibly what might feel better during the month is going out for dinner with coworkers and just enjoying people. It doesn't have to be pink ribbons on their sweaters and all of that.

They have shown up and shown you, it sounds like, that they care and they love you. And it just depends. Sometimes prior to diagnosis, it’s much more, because we don’t have information. Sometimes, once we actually get the diagnosis, we feel like, okay, now we can deal with things. But it might be indicative...when you say the movie comes on and you hear this and you just want to bolt, like, that may be indicative. It may not, but please arrive at the month and see what feels right. But for all people listening to this, there is nothing you have to do in the month of October at all, except for keep yourself safe, keep yourself as healthy as possible with hydration, whatever that may be. And surround yourself with people that love you and do not judge you.

And that is really...if you want to talk about what do I have to do, that’s what you have to do, is keep yourself safe, keep yourself as healthy as possible with nutrition, whatever that may be, hydration, and surround yourself… Go all in on being with people that love you and do not judge you.

That’s maybe how we turn this month into something. And if the conversation comes up and you don’t want to have it, I also have to say this. It’s okay to say to people, "I so appreciate that you care about me, and I want you to know it doesn't go unnoticed. Just for today, don’t want to talk about it. Like, I just don’t want to talk about it."

Now, what I will say to people, though, is that, "That doesn't mean I don’t ever want you to ask me how I’m doing, because it’s not like a one and done. But for today, I just don’t want to talk about it." And we all know those people. I call them the grocery store clerks, and this is not to rip on grocery store clerks. So, I’m going to probably have the NFL calling me and all the grocery store people, but it’s the grocery store clerk of, how are you? They don’t really want to know, to be honest. I mean, I did, one time, have a situation where I kind of broke down with one, right after the death of somebody very important to me, and it didn't go well. I mean, they really didn't want to know, and in fact, it made it very awkward and very anxious. And they were, like, hurrying up, and it just, it got very quiet.

So, we know those “how are you” people, and that’s about it. And then we know the people that will say, "No, I really want to know." So, my hope for people listening to this, even if you’re not...because I know that people outside of this call are going to hear this. Even if you’re not living with breast cancer, but you care about somebody who’s living with breast cancer, is ask them, "How does this month feel for you? What does this month...does it mean anything to you? What would you like to do? I’d like to honor our friendship and do something during this month." And that's, again, honoring, maybe we double down on people that love us. Maybe that’s what you can do, Shannon, for the month, you know?

But people...I hear this a lot. "What should I be doing?" Because there's also superstition in a lot of people’s minds, that if they don’t do it, something bad is going to happen or they’re not appreciative enough or whatever that may be. And that is just something I really try to work with people on, is what helps you feel the safest? What helps you feel the calmest?

And by the way, what helps you feel hopeful? Because, with all stages of cancer, there is hope. And I have spoken to many, many, many people at the end of their life. That’s actually one of my specialties. And there is hope, even on their last day of life. There is hope that they will feel comfortable. There is hope that their family will be okay. There is hope that they’ll be able to have a conversation with their family. There is hope that they’ll feel well enough to sit up and watch the birds. Whatever it may be. But I want to say, there is hope, and that is really important, and maybe sometimes, some of the messages in October can have infiltration of hope. Whether it’s through the research, whether it’s through the pharmaceuticals, whatever that may be, and what you can all do in October is use it as a la carte.

Take what serves you, and ignore the rest. Take what comforts you, take what helps you feel safe, and ignore the rest. There can be a lot of things that are very activating during this month. There can be a lot of stories. Stories that are not yours, but that can bring up a lot of anxiety. Recurrence stories, all the different things. So, again, where do you feel safe? And that’s where I want you to hang out. Remember, you’re allowed to take breaks from awareness noise. Take what makes you feel safe, and leave the rest.

How are our friends and family doing with this month coming up? Because I will also say that they have their own situations, right? So, they get identified as the husband whose wife has breast cancer, or the mom whose daughter has breast cancer, or the wife whose wife has breast cancer, whatever it may be. How are your families around this time? Is October a time that there’s kind of like a white elephant or pink elephant in the room? Or is it something your families want to honor because you are here?

And the reason I ask these questions, because I oftentimes get varying answers, and I like to point that out that there’s no right or wrong way, but all of our families are different. And you can take your microphone off and speak, if you would prefer.

"Basically, ignoring the message of the month." Yeah, and that’s okay.

And you know, here’s one thing I want to say about “ignoring the message of the month.” That does not mean you’re in denial. Like, you know you have breast cancer. You go to your doctors’ appointments. You do the things you’re supposed to do. That tells me you’re in touch. You’re at this webinar today. People that are in denial don’t come to things like this, okay? So, if people say, "Well, I’m worried you’re not facing it," or "I’m worried you’re not dealing with it because you want to ignore the month," no, that is not true.

If you were not going to any of your doctors’ appointments and doing things that were hurting yourself, that might be a different conversation. But again, if you’re listening to this, I’m going to take a leap of faith and say that many of you, likely, are very aware that you have cancer, and you’re doing the things that you need to do. So, ignoring the month, you know, sometimes people will say that to me. I feel like they’re not in denial or they’re not grasping the reality of it, you know? It’s not true. That’s not how I see it. I see it as they’re trying to stay safe. They’re trying to stay safe. And that’s a lovely thing, by the way, when our loved ones want to do something that honors us.

Again, I’m all about donating for the causes that go directly to the people living with cancer. If it’s financial assistance, research, whatever that may be, and it’s places like Breastcancer.org that survive, so to speak, on donations, et cetera, when you have nonprofits. So I know some people think it’s a ploy politically to raise money, and I just say for me, personally, I don’t mind donating, but I donate throughout the year. So, it’s not just in October. But sometimes, October is, like, the, "Oh, I should donate," or "Oh, let’s do something. Do you want me to donate in your name?"

Again, for those listening that want to know what to do, double down on being with them, having a Zoom coffee, if you don’t live together, calling them up, sending a text. Go out for dinner. Go for a walk. That’s really what people need, is they need, again, to feel loved and to feel safe. So, in someone’s honor, it might just be being with them and letting them know you love them.

So, here, somebody is saying: "My family just doesn't talk about it." And I guess I want to ask you, how does that feel?

Female Speaker: Well, my mother had breast cancer in 2009. My sister had it in 2001, and I had it in 2024. But it’s not genetic, okay? And my husband had vocal cord cancer in 2020. And my kids and my husband and my mother and my sister and the rest of my family, they don’t want to talk about it. They think, "Oh, it was early. It’s done. You’re done," but in the middle of all of this, when I was diagnosed last year in May, my mother had a heart valve replacement. She’s 95 now, and I couldn't go for my biopsy until she was out of surgery.

Then I had my biopsy, and then I had my surgery, and in February, prior to that, I had purchased the house I’m in now down in North Carolina. So, through all my treatment and my surgery and everything, I was out doing yard sales, and it was crazy. So, my problem, I think, is that I just didn't have time to realize what was happening to me until my hair fell out. And I just didn't grieve, I guess, as we say. So, that...but my kids didn't say a word to me. "Sorry this is happening to you," or anything. They’re boys, and they're in their 20s, and they just think that everything’s A-okay now. But I’m not.

Kelly Grosklags: I appreciate you sharing that. One thing I will say is I often will see the families not say something, not because they don’t love you.

Female Speaker: Oh, I know that.

Kelly Grosklags: It’s because of their own discomfort, because they worry if they bring it up, it might upset you, whatever that may be. What we have to do is all of us get better at expressing what we need. And so talking to the boys about, sometimes it would be nice if you asked me how I’m doing.

The other thing I want to say is, in your case, and this does happen where families have so much cumulative things going on, that it’s almost hard to decipher. You know, I’ve worked with families where multiple diagnoses have gone on, job loss, you know, all these things, and people can get lost in that.

It’s never too late to grieve or acknowledge or be gentle or do the things you can do for...in fact, oftentimes, it is after the treatment or when things settle down, even in metastatic, when there’s not after the treatment, per se. There are times where there’s more lulls. It’s never too late to go back and really honor what you’ve been through and give yourself love and give yourself grace and write about it and journal about it, whatever way feels right. There’s not a statute of limitations of grief. And that’s true if somebody died...my mother died when I was 11, and I really didn't do the major grief work until my late 30s, and it wasn’t like I missed that opportunity.

Trust me, it was there, and so, I think that’s important to remember, that maybe we all need to take a pause. And it’s not something you do only once, but do you go back and honor what you have been through, what you are going through? Because even those people that are beyond treatment live in a world of what-if, okay? And that in and of itself can be very anxiety-provoking and can be very...you know, they see the mammogram coming up on the calendar. They have to go in for lab draws. They hear a story of somebody who had a recurrence. It was the same genetic makeup as theirs, and it just brings up stuff.

Do you give yourself enough credit and acknowledgement for what you’ve been through each day? And I think that’s maybe, you know, one of the ways I’m going to end this, is just talk a little bit about the affirmations and the mantras that we can bring into our day. Is there something that you can share with the group, as we’re nearing the end here, that’s been helpful, even if you’ve said it to yourself or someone has said it to you, that can be almost like we’re committing to good self-talk, loving self-talk? What feels comfortable? What feels safe when you hear it or when you say it or when you think it?

Can we share those now as we’re ending?

Someone here, too, is saying that: "I did the same, and I realized, too, this summer that I hadn’t grieved. There’s plenty of room to give myself love, grace, and gentleness," yes.

Anybody want to say words or phrases out loud? We only have, like, two minutes.

I’m hoping this is not a sign that nobody feels supported and that we’re just quiet. Deep breathing while out and about in October. 

Shopping. Lighting a candle, as I’ve done each day, and just sitting with this, just kind of watching the flame, breathing in and out.

Melissa Jenkins: Kelly, could you repeat the question or what you’d like people to do, please?

Kelly Grosklags: Yes. The question is, what things have you heard that have been helpful or supportive regarding the cancer experience? What things do you say to yourself that help you feel loved and safe, those things we talked about? Because that’s really what my hope for all of us, in October and all the other 11 months, is feeling safe, feeling loved, and feeling as healthy as we can.

"I am not alone." Yeah. That is a big one, and Melissa, how often are you doing...you’re doing groups weekly, aren’t you? Yeah.

Melissa Jenkins: So, the answers to the questions coming in, like, answer about wait times and tiredness, could you send me some answers? Yeah. We’ll be happy to do that.

Yes, we have groups that are run every week. We’re going to share all the groups in a follow-up email with the chat, and please feel free to join. We have groups for people in active treatment, in earlier stages. We have people who have finished...for people who have finished their treatment called Bonded By Breast Cancer when the active treatment is done and you feel like, wow, I’m still so stuck, though. What’s going on? To share and sort of help to process what just happened?

And we have multiple groups for people living with metastatic breast cancer. So, we really have tried to do something for everybody. We have three every single week for people living with metastatic breast cancer. So, please join us if you feel like you need extra support, additional support, you want to chat and get to, you know, really process some of these things. And our October groups tend to be quite huge, because people are processing more. It’s a lot, and I’m glad if you do join the group, so we welcome you.

Kelly Grosklags: Yeah, I love this. It’s more than okay to slow down and stay in that rest mode. "I put so much pressure on myself." I think that is so important, going back to what’s the pressure you put on yourself?

So, that’s beautiful. I love that, and I think what I do want to end with is just kind of putting our hands over our heart, if that feels right. And I’m going to put this up here so we can focus on this, but just putting your hands over your heart, and you can just say to yourself, "I am not alone, and I am loved." And please say that often. "I am not alone, and I am loved."

And if you don’t believe it right now, the more you say it, the more you’ll believe it. 

And so, I just want to thank each one of you. As you go into all months, please be gentle and be safe. As you go into October, approach each morning in the day and in the month, and see where you feel...see what you want to do. You’re not betraying anything if you want to wear pink all day long, and you’re not betraying anyone if you don’t want to wear pink. So, it really is about you. And as Shannon said, this is your first. There’s many people this is their first, and so, maybe just even talking about that in the groups would be important.

If you want, you can follow me on social media at Conversations With Kelly and also on Instagram @SeeMyGrief, and I write a few times a week. So, would love to have you over in that community, and you’ll also see where people are commenting, and if one person feels it, a thousand people have also experienced it, likely.

So, thank you to Breastcancer.org for inviting me. Thank you to all of you for showing up. I wish each one of you peace and safety and love, and we’ll see you again next time, maybe in a couple months, whenever I come back. So, thank you, Melissa, and thank you, everybody.

Thank you for listening to The Breastcancer.org Podcast. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts. To share your thoughts about this or any episode, email us at podcast@breastcancer.org, or leave feedback on the podcast episode landing page on our website. And remember, you can find out a lot more information about breast cancer at Breastcancer.org, and you can connect with thousands of people affected by breast cancer by joining our online community.